The whole time I’m reading this book, one of the things I want to know is who Esther’s actual parents are. I sympathize with Esther greatly because of her having such a sad and horrible childhood, where she did not know who her mother and father was and her birthday being “the most melancholy day at home, in the whole year” (p.18). She had no one who gave her motherly care and the little bit she received from Rachael is not enough to satisfy a child’s hunger for love and affection as growing up. I felt bad about how her godmother neglected her and the time she told Esther that she was a “disgrace” to her mother, which was probably traumatic for Esther. This being said, after reading chapter 18, I’m 98% sure that Lady Dedlock is either Esther’s actual mother (I’m not very sure about who Esther’s father is because more clues and information are needed) or she is Esther’s aunt (the other two percent I’m not sure because we have yet to meet more characters).
Mr. Guppy seeing the portrait of Lady Dedlock, on chapter 7, was the first time I had a feeling she was somehow related to Esther. Lady Dedlock probably resembled Esther and Mr. Guppy who never saw Lady Dedlock, but saw Esther before, was fascinated about how much Esther and Lady Dedlock looked alike hence later on he became completely infatuated with Esther (stalking her and wanting to marry her). The second example that shows why Lady Dedlock is Esther’s mother or is related to Esther is when Esther finally sees Lady Dedlock in the church. After she sees her, Esther gets the same frightening reaction she use to have when she used to be around her godmother. Lady Dedlock also had the similar voice of Esther’s godmother which reminded Esther of her godmother. The third example is when John Jarndyce and Lady Dedlock were speaking about Lady Dedlock’s sister who was also John Jarndyce’s friend. The fact that Lady Dedlock had a sister who was also a good friend of John Jarndyce is another clue that Esther and Lady Dedlock are related.
To me it seems like Lady Dedlock probably has two sisters, one being Esther’s godmother, the other who is Esther’s actual mother, but whatever the case is, Esther and Lady Dedlock are related by blood. Lady Dedlock always being so miserable and her life show that her past is what makes her sad. She is probably sad all the time because she thinks about her mistake (or her sister’s mistake) for abandoning (Esther). Do you guys think that there will be other characters who are more likely to be Esther’s mother? Or does everyone think that Lady Dedlock is Esther’s mother or aunt?
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Lady Deadlock is Esther's mother. When Guppy approach her about the relations she tired to fight it but realize that Esther is her daughter. Lady Deadlock is upset that her daughter was alive and never had a chance to see who she was and what she become. I do not believe that there is another character in Bleak House that can be here mother but I do believe that there will be other characters in the book that knows Lady Deadlock past and the truth of Esther, Lady Deadlock and Nemo aka Captain Hawdon.
ReplyDeleteWell, I think that cat is out of the bag. But what we can talk about here is what the implications are: what does it mean that Esther looks like this woman who was so gorgeous as to make Sir Leicester marry (considerably) below him? That her mother is obviously a passionate person (assuming that the sex was consensual) who transgressed boundaries of Victorian propriety? That her father was an adventurous sort who medicated his problems and overdosed? Do any of these things change our sense of who Esther is? Does BLEAK HOUSE think nature or nurture is more important?
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure if Lady Deadlock is Esther's mother or aunt, but what I am sure of is of
ReplyDeleteLady Dealock's selfish ways. It really bothered me that she manipulated Rosa into making a decision that would affect her life, without letting her know she had other options. If she is Esther's mother, maybe she sees Rosa as the daughter she abandoned , or maybe she is simply selfish. I hope Rosa realizes where her true happiness will be and leaves Lady Deadlock.
well know that we know that Lady Dedlock is Esther's Mother I think that my next question is "is LAdy Dedlock going to do anything about it now that she knows her daughter is alive and close by", will she possibly now want to say be apart of Esther's adult life? Is she going to come out to all the world and say I am Esther Summerson's mother and i want to be there for her now and forever more.
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ReplyDeleteI think it's interesting to think of Esther being the child of what may have been a once passionate, and attractive fun loving woman, and a possibly once adventurous, daring man. If their legacy flows into Esther (damn nurture for this argument, nature is my friend!) then I almost feel like her potential to develop as a character is even more high than it was before.
ReplyDeleteWe all thought she had developed a good bit since her earlier days when she was more shy, and then she began to get more confident and enjoy the compliments about her character.
But like any TV show, novel or movie I watch, I expect and hope that (if it doesn't mess up the purpose of the message) characters will find their full potentials, whether they know they are drawing on it or not.
What I mean to say is that I'm wondering that once Esther knows the truth (if she ever does), and especially if her parents remain out of her life (If Nemo is her pappy, he's already out, and if Lady Dedlock remains shellshocked) will she start to take on an even more mature role?
Will she, raised and learning and maturing with less hindrances than her parents and gaining self-esteem and responsibility like a snowball, take on the characteristics of her parents when they were pure? Can she be a compound version of the higher traits of her parents?
Think Underworld: will she be Michael, a combined vampire and werewolf with all the strengths and none of the weaknesses? (if you haven't seen that, then think Blade...)
And if that's Dicken's intent, what will her purpose be in the latter half of the book?
Does anyone understand me?
Now that Esther's parents are apparently confirmed to be Lady Dedlock and Nemo/Captain Hawdon, it seems anti-climatic. It will be interesting to see where Lady Dedlock takes her knowledge, or even Guppy who is attempting to blackmail Lady Dedlock in a way. I don't believe that Lady Dedlock can make everything better, get to know her daughter, and live happily ever after. There must be a journey for Lady Dedlock as well as Esther, if she ever finds out.
ReplyDeleteAnd, now what difference would it make if Lady Dedlock tells Esther. Sure Esther may find herself, but then would her situation be any different from the way it is now?
Finding out that Lady Dedlock thought that her daughter was dead sort of redeems her in my eyes. In most of the book we have read so far she seemed a gold-digging, selfish, uncaring and always bored person. Now we see what might be the reason for the way she acts. I am interested to find out what happens next for Lady Dedlock and Esther. Will Lady Dedlock tell Esther that she is her mother, will they accept each other (remember the last time Esther and Lady Dedlock met Lady Dedlock dismissed Esther, since Esther is technically a servant she doesn’t count.
ReplyDeleteAs for the question of whether finding out who Esther’s real parents are changes our opinion of her? Not for me. It just makes me wonder how Esther would have turned out to be if she was raised by her mother and possibly by Hawdon. I really hope that Lady Dedlock does tell Esther that she is her mother because if she doesn’t and someone else does, like Guppy, this would really hurt her already fragile state.
Dickens often makes orphans a big part of his books and because of that I think that even if it comes out that Lady Dedlock is Esther’s mother, she will not be in Esther’s life for long, since Esther is the main orphan of this book.
We know that Esther likes Allan Woodcourt, I can’t remember if we know what his feelings toward her might be, but we know that Mrs. Woodcourt want a wife for her son who is of the upper class. So far she knows Esther not to be that and I think she even hinted to Esther not to set her sights on Allan. If it comes out that Esther if Lady Dedlock’s daughter would she be worthy of Allan Woodcourt?
Thematically, I don't like the idea of knowing so early. It's like in Twin Peaks when we found out half way through the series who killed Laura Palmer.
ReplyDeleteWhat's salvagable here is the idea that now that we know, we should see Esther's path to discovery, and Lady Dedlock reconciling the result of her actions.
I think that Esther was a child born to two passionate people who really was in love with each other. I think that Lady Deadlock really did love the man that helped her conceive Esther. Whether the man was Nemo or not. I believe that if the two knew they conceived a child that was still alive they would have still been together.
ReplyDeleteI think that Lady Deadlock really would have taken care of Esther as best as she could eventhough people would have ridiculed her for having a child out of wedlock. I also have a change of heart about who Esthers character really is. Like we discussed in class I to believe that Esther is a character who is neither good nor evil based on our findings of who her mother is. Esther seems more like Lady deadlock to me now. It's like a saying that I have heard many times, "Like mother, like daughther" meaning that a daughter will always have some characteristics as their mother.
I like Masoud's comparison of Esther potentially becoming Michael from Underworld! Very clever indeed. However, I don't think Esther has the potential to become Michael. She does seem to have grown and changed and matured. Her voice in the novel is becoming much more solid and confident. But I still feel like Esther could have a nervous breakdown at any moment.
ReplyDeleteI wonder if instead of Lady Dedlock acknowledging Esther as her daughter, Esther will refuse to have anything to do with her mother. She did get a very strange (not in a good way) feeling when she was around Lady Dedlock, so I wonder if that is Dickens's way of telling us that Esther will not run into her mother's arms the moment she realizes she is her daughter. Maybe Esther doesn't see Lady Dedlock as this beautiful woman who enchanted her mcuh older and much richer husband into marrying her. Esther cannot even fathom the idea of marrying Guppy, much less having sex with him, so maybe she will not look so kindly upon her mother's actions, or her mother for that matter. And if she did see her as beautiful, she wouldhave to see herself as such, which might be a stretch, even for the new-found Esther. Instead of being shocked by her mother's beauty, Esther seemed more irritated than anything during their first encounter.
I like Esther, even though she's no Michael. :)
I like Masoud's reference to underworld as well. And I also like the question that Katharina brings up. Now that Lady Dedlock knows that Esther is alive will she step up to the plate and be in her life? Or will she be too worried that everyone will find out and her reputation will go down the drain? I cant wait to read on to see what happens next, for Esthers sake, I hope that Lady Dedlock does come into her life to make up for the time not spent during Esther's childhood.
ReplyDeleteI love all the references to TV, as I said way back in the beginning of the semester that the serialized novel as a form was an important ancestor to television, blogs and other stories told in parts. This could be a good Final Project context for this class...
ReplyDeleteI would love to hear more about Sara's sense that Esther is always on the verge of a nervous breakdown -- events we'll talk about tomorrow push Esther to the wall and we'll need to talk about how these events shape her sense of self.
I also like the question many of you pose about what Lady Dedlock's obligations are toward Esther now that LD knows (the phrase "step up to the plate" suggests an ethical obligation). This is another good thing to talk about in class, but I would remind you of just how rigid the class hierarchy was back then (all the parts about Sir Leicester explain that). It is also true that as England modernizes the rise of democratic ideas puts a pressure on this traditional, hierarchical society. So while there might then be more transgressions of the social order, there is also more anxiety about those transgressions (this is the point of what Mrs. Rouncewell's businessman son represents). So the next step in LD's/Esther's relationship is quite bound by these social pressures.
Finally, I like the quest about beauty some of you raise. It is something we've touched upon, but only briefly. There is the excessive attention paid to Ada's looks (by many characters (remember how Krook fondles her hair?), but especially by Esther -- the Dickensian narrator never mentions Ada, so in some senses we are led to believe that Ada's beauty is only important to Esther's narrative/characterization not to the story at large; compare this to LD's beauty, which is mention by the Dickensian narrator because it is of importance to the "fashionable intelligence"). Eshter also notes other instances of female beauty: Jellyby is unkempt but not bad looking, Caddy is pretty if stunted by the lack of a good female role model, Charley is very pretty if stunted by her acceleration into the adult world. Even Hortense's physical appearance is noted by Esther (pretty but dangerous looking). How does the outside define what is inside (are good people good looking? bad people bad looking?)? And how can we connect this idea with our main ideas in BLEAK HOUSE (about a responsible society? about connection?)?
Will Lady Dedlock "step up to the plate" now that she knows that she is Esther's mother?
ReplyDeleteHonestly,if Dickens wants this novel to be a true portrayal of Victorian society, Lady Dedlock will do nothing. I think it is highly unlikely that LD will risk losing her good name and her high-standing as the Lady of Chesney Wold for a girl she knows nothing about. Yes, Esther is her daughter, but re-uniting with her will not improve her life in any way. The one thing that can improve is that she will be less bored with her husband, Leicester Dedlock, if he does find out about about her illegitimate child. He will definitely spice up the relationship then, and not in provocative way.
Can anyone tell me why I can't put up a new post?
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